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02/10/09 **Updated 02/17/09**

Round 5 MMA Collectibles with Damon Lau, Sean "The Muscle Shark" Sherk & "Big" John McCarthy

By Dave Carpinello

Round 5 has become mixed martial arts fastest growing worldwide collectible figure company. They are set to release their Series 3 figures in April 2009 which includes Andrei Arlovski, Frank Mir, ‘Big John’ McCarthy and Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira.  As an independent toy company, Round 5 has been able to sign some of the sports biggest names to exclusive contracts. Sean "The Muscle Shark" Sherk is one of those fighters and he joined Round 5 President Damon Lau and "Big" John McCarthy in talking with PDG about the company and their exclusive line of MMA collectibles.

Damon Lau

PDG:  Thanks for sitting down and talking with PDG; can you give mixed martial arts fans a brief history of how Round 5 got started?

Damon Lau:  In addition to Round 5, I own a mid-sized advertising agency in Toronto, Canada.  I have done work for Yahoo, Calvin Klein and other industry leaders.  One of my clients was the Fight Network and in the process of working with them I got the opportunity to do some work with Randy Couture.  We ended up forming a good friendship over time and back in the spring of 2007; Randy was in Toronto for some promotional stuff.  We had a meeting and were brainstorming marketing ideas for mixed martial arts because the sport had really started to take off.  Randy came up with an idea for plastic cauliflower ears that fans could buy and wear to the events.  I have been a die hard MMA fan for probably the last 10 years; I was that guy sitting on MMA forums reading the play by play late at night of PRIDE events because I didn't want to wait to watch the tape delayed fights.  In Japan there was a small toy company called Hao that created cartoon versions of the PRIDE fighters.  I thought they were awesome but the biggest drawback was how expensive they were.  So in response to what Randy came up with; I suggested that we come up with a figurine line of MMA fighters.  After a brief moment of silence as we both contemplated the idea, Randy said that if I ever decided to do something like that to contact him because he would love to be a part of it.  Randy became the first license we ever signed for the company.  It all basically started there and has been developing ever since.  The concept behind the whole company is to provide a company for the fans.  I didn't get into this business to make money, I did it because I was a fan of the sport and I loved those damn PRIDE figurines.  I don't watch hockey, I don't watch football, I am heart and soul a MMA fanatic.  This is a fans company and we do not work with any particular MMA organization.  We work with the fighters exclusively not the organizations.

PDG:  That brings up a great question; how did you get around the UFC in order to sign these fighters to exclusive contracts?

Damon Lau:  I guess it is because we started Round 5 so early that it was before the UFC was even attempting this kind of merchandising.  We started this company just about two years ago, working with the fighters directly before the UFC really started their new merchandising approach.  We created a no nonsense program that pays the fighters four to five times more in royalties than any other toy company on the market would pay them.  More importantly, from a fan's point of view we did something very different as we get the fighter's point of view throughout the whole process of designing and making their figure.  From a toy company's point of view, that is typically not something that is industry-standard because of the production cost risks.  That is the difference with our company in that we give creative control to the fighters when they sign the contract to work with us.  If you are going to buy a Wanderlei Silva figurine, it is much cooler to know that the ‘Axe Murderer’ himself approved of the whole design.  I think that is the biggest thing that separates us from other toy makers; the fact that the fighters are completely involved in the whole process even down to picking the sponsors on the shorts of their figure.  I am a fan of the sport that makes products for other fans of the sport.

PDG:  Tell me a little bit more about the opportunity that the fighters have to actually sell ad space on their figures.

Damon Lau:  It basically comes from my advertising and marketing background.  We knew when we first started the company that fighters derive a big part of their income from sponsorships.  It is actually sometimes equivalent to what their being paid to fight.  So instead of having an advertiser pay money to be on a fighter’s shorts for 15 to 25 minutes of fight time; we gave them the opportunity to put their logo on the fighter’s figurine that will be there forever.  In addition to that they will get exposure from pictures of the figurine online and the figure sitting on store shelves.  It gives the fighters a great chance to embody the sponsors that take care of them and in the process the fighter gets to take that long term money for choosing to have that sponsor on their figurine.  We have the sponsor sign a waiver so that we can reproduce the logo and the fighter keeps 100% of the profit.  That is definitely a benefit to our company as it allows the fighter to do something outside of the lines with their sponsor and keep the money.

PDG:  It seems like you have a great concept but I have to imagine that the UFC cannot be thrilled with your exclusivity with some of their top fighters.  Have they approached you or applied any pressure to the fighters in the UFC that you are signing to exclusive contracts?

Damon Lau:  To be honest we have not heard anything from them yet.  I have never spoken with Dana White and we have yet to have any conversations with the UFC.  To be honest I'm a huge fan of the UFC and I love watching every single event that they put on.  I think there are a couple of different reasons why we have not had any problems as far as competition with the UFC goes. Even though the UFC is coming out with their own line of figurines, they signed a deal with Jakks Pacific; who makes the WWE figurines.  They are almost like the G.I. Joe toys for kids.  That is the complete opposite end of the spectrum from the product that we are offering.  Our products are designed for the fan that is looking for a collectible and the new UFC figurines are more of a toy that is made to be played with.

PDG:  Your Series 3 set is going to be hitting stores in April 2009; how many different Series are you looking to release each year?

Damon Lau:  We will have four Series coming out this year.  You will probably see a lot of different and exciting stuff coming out from us this year and we are still working on finalizing all the plans for 2010.  So yeah, the Series that comes out in April will be the first of four for 2009.

PDG:  Great talking with you and is there anything that you wanted to add?

Damon Lau:  Thanks for the story and I have a parting message for the fans....If you have any suggestions on anything or fighters that you would like to see in any of our upcoming Series, please go to our site and email your thoughts.

Sean "The Muscle Shark" Sherk

PDG:  Your figurine was released back in November of 2008; what did you think of the whole process from the start of your product to the finish?

Sean Sherk:  I met Damon just about a year ago while I was doing an appearance in Canada.  He approached me with the idea of making the figurine and I was all over it.  I was very excited about the idea and so we started what became a long process of about 10 months.  It may have been a long process but it was really cool to go through all the steps and then to finally see the finished product.  Very Cool!

PDG:  One of the things Damon talked about was that you as a fighter got to be hands-on throughout the whole process of making the figurine; what did you think about that?

Sean Sherk:  I thought it was really cool and you know obviously it was my figurine so I wanted to make sure that the final product came out how I wanted it to.  I took all of the pictures myself and I even got to choose which poses I wanted and they kept me updated throughout the whole process of making the figurine.  So that I could make changes and generally see the whole progress from the initial mold to the store shelf.

PDG:  They are obviously a little different than a typical toy company; you were able to sell the space on your figurine’s shorts.

Sean Sherk:  It was great, I was able to get some of my sponsors on there and even put the academy that I train at on the shorts.  I was able to keep everybody happy and make some money as well.

PDG:  What did the sponsors think of the opportunity that you gave them?

Sean Sherk:  A lot of people wanted to be a part of it and the ones that were chosen were very happy.  It was an opportunity for them to get long-term exposure.

PDG:  You signed an exclusive deal for these figurines with Round 5; what was the UFC's reaction to you basically selling away from their company?

Sean Sherk:  It's a completely separate company and the UFC has their own set of figurines ready to hit the market.  With my contract being exclusive to Round 5, I obviously will not be taking part in the UFC deal.  I was in contact with Dana White right from the beginning and I told him about my exclusive contract with Round 5.  He was cool about it and I think that the biggest thing was that the UFC had not had a comparable product at the time that I signed with Round 5.  I am happy with the decision I made and it is pretty exciting to have one of the first figurines of an MMA fighter that is me and it was a no-brainer as far as a business decision.

PDG:  Since the UFC now has a figurine product line coming out, has their approach with you been different?

Sean Sherk:  Of course they wanted me to be a part of the new product line but I am signed for two to three years with Round 5.  The thing is....the UFC has tons of stars and fighters to work with so it really wasn't a make or break thing for me not to be included.  All of us fighters are self-employed and we should be and are entitled to make business decisions for ourselves that make us money.  You need to take advantage of the opportunities that are presented to you.

PDG:  What other types of collectibles and/or promotional deals are you looking at?

Sean Sherk:  The sport has really blown up right now and I am looking at every opportunity that is presented to me.  There are a lot of different things that are coming my direction and speaking of which I have a shoe coming out in 2009.  I have had many deals come my way including the wall graphics Fathead.  I am entrepreneur and I am definitely out there looking to make as much money as I can.  As a professional fighter there is a limited amount of time that you will have to make money and if you don't take advantage of it, then you lose.  There are a lot of opportunities when you are on top that disappear when you are not.

**A Little Off-Topic but just for a minute**

PDG:  Did you say you have a shoe coming out?

Sean Sherk:  Yes, I have an agreement to produce a ‘Muscle Shark’ Shoe that will be available soon and I have a pair of them now.  Nobody has ever seen shoes like these before; they don't have shoe laces and they tighten with a wheel at the back of the shoe that you can just roll the heel to tighten them.  Then there is a lever you can press that release.  So that you don't actually ever have to bend over to tie or take off your shoes.  It is definitely something that people haven't seen before and a good concept that when it hits stores it will be big.

PDG:  Sounds almost futuristic, are they for every day use, cross-training or what?

Sean Sherk:  Cross-training.  It's a tennis shoe that can be used for any type of recreational workouts or just to wear around.

**Back On-Topic**

PDG:  Sounds cool.  Send me a pair!  Is there anything else you wanted to add about the Round 5 figurine deal?

Sean Sherk:  The experience was great and I would recommend any fighter to take advantage of the process of making your own figurine.  It was really cool that unlike other companies I was able to give my input throughout the whole process.  All in all it was a good time and a lot of big stores have picked up the line which is great for sales.  I'm excited about the future of the company and definitely thanks for the coverage.

"Big" John McCarthy

PDG: How did you get involved with Round 5?

John McCarthy: They were able to contact me through Randy Couture and it just went on from there. My figurine is set to be released with the Series 3 set in April.

PDG: What did you think of the whole hands on approach of making your figure?

John McCarthy: The company [Round 5] was very easy to work with and as most people that know me know that it isn’t very easy to get me to do most things. They were great to work with though from the initial pictures to the final product. They obviously had their ideas for the project but they listened to each one of mine.  My only is problem is that my figurine is really ugly so it looks just like me. It bothers me that they got it to look so lifelike [laughs].

PDG: What about Round 5 as a company stood out to you in compared to other collectible companies?

John McCarthy: It basically started when they were showing me the concepts of the product. There used to be PRIDE figurines back in Japan and I always liked the cartoon/realistic approach to the figures that Round 5 was proposing. I have a couple of those PRIDE figurines on my desk at work and they are always fun to look at. I am not a big fan of the G.I. Joe type figurines that all have the same body type with just some different colors of paint.

PDG: Where you at all surprised that Round 5 was able to circumvent the UFC by signing some UFC fighters to exclusive contracts?

John McCarthy: Round 5 is a company that is working with fighters on an individual basis and the UFC is an organization that now is going to be promoting their own line of action figures....not really collectibles.  The UFC has a lot of rights in concern with fighter likeness and marketing that is included in the fighter contracts and I think that Round 5 is working within the confines of those fighters contracts because their product is different than the UFC action figures.  Round 5 is also working with several fighters that are not a part of the UFC.  The UFC is selling the UFC and Round 5 is selling the fighter.

PDG: Another aspect of the Round 5 product is that the fighter/personality is able to sell space on their figurine to sponsors. Where you able to take advantage of that?

John McCarthy: I never really had sponsors; the only thing I ever had on my uniform was Tapout from time to time.  I know that the fighters where able to take advantage and form longer term relationships with some of their sponsors by selling space on the figurines shorts and that is a really great concept that Round 5 offers the fighters. I went with what I normally wore....all black!  I chose not to include any athletic commissions or sponsors and I am just fine with that.

PDG: What other marketing opportunities are you looking at?

John McCarthy: I am always looking for something that fits who I am and reflects positively on my image as others see it.  I am not out there actively pursuing different things because if is something that fits me, it will find me. The Round 5 guys came to me and I absolutely enjoyed working with them and I couldn’t say enough good things about them.

PDG: Thanks for your time John; is there anything else you wanted to add?

John McCarthy: I want to thank all the fans and fighters out there that contribute to this great sport.

The Round 5 Figurines can be purchased at www.Round5mma.com, Toys ‘R’ Us, Champs Sports and FYE.




**Special Thanks To Jerry Milani and TakeDownRadio.com**